tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7907752.post1119337090260158059..comments2024-03-27T07:18:39.229-05:00Comments on In Medias Res: I'm Less Than 30% Elitist! (How About You?)Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7907752.post-11989350091864455772010-10-30T06:23:35.641-05:002010-10-30T06:23:35.641-05:00There are 25 questions, by my count. If so, you ar...There are 25 questions, by my count. If so, you are a little more elitist than you thought.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17827956018226620650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7907752.post-7991500645969291852010-10-29T08:41:51.142-05:002010-10-29T08:41:51.142-05:00Western Dave,
Murray may have been comparing toda...Western Dave,<br /><br />Murray may have been comparing today's "New Elite" against the "New Elite" of 30 years ago. <br /><br />For a wider perspective, Kevin Carson has written a bunch about <a href="http://www.mutualist.org/id7.html" rel="nofollow">"the New Class"</a>, which is basically what anarchists and communists call Murray's "New Elite".<br /><br />This group originated with the progressive movement of the early 20th century, and has become steadily more influential since then (during the post-War and post-Industrial phases of American economic history). However, it's really only in the post-Industrial phase that the New Class has grown large enough to potentially become a distinct demographic group (as Murray is suggesting it has).Ricketsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02579799843541826447noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7907752.post-37914644050976921882010-10-28T19:57:00.782-05:002010-10-28T19:57:00.782-05:00For me the tell line was "The members of the ...For me the tell line was "The members of the New Elite may love America, but, increasingly, they are not of it." Increasingly? Because the old elite was of America? I grew up with some of the kids of the old elite. Hell, I practically am the old elite except for the fact that my economic mobility has been straight down. The old elite wasn't "of America" thirty years ago. <br /><br />-Western DaveAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7907752.post-61929983385821392242010-10-28T11:29:45.333-05:002010-10-28T11:29:45.333-05:00That economist article was interesting, as were th...That economist article was interesting, as were the comments associated with it.<br /><br />FWIW, I found an <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/national/20050515_CLASS_GRAPHIC/index_01.html" rel="nofollow">SES calculator.</a><br /><br />Oddly, they say that only 10% of Americans have a bachelor's degree, whereas the US Census bureau says that about <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_United_States" rel="nofollow"> 25% do</a>.<br /><br />Another thought on Murray's quiz: many of the traits he defines as "elite" (e.g. bookishness) are traits that distinguished me from my friends growing up, and even from my brother to some extent.<br /><br />It makes me wonder if this talk of "elitism" is just good old nerd-bashing.Ricketsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02579799843541826447noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7907752.post-41801650263147913202010-10-28T11:05:18.268-05:002010-10-28T11:05:18.268-05:00Thanks for the link, Camassia. I disagree with Wil...Thanks for the link, Camassia. I disagree with Will about many things, but on this point, he's right on:<br /><br /><i>Very roughly, churchgoing non-coastal rich people are Republicans, while the more secular coastal rich are Democrats. What we are now seeing is not a showdown between the vast non-ideological middle-class and some rising Acai-swilling, assortatively-mating bobo aristocracy, but a standoff between rival elites.</i><br /><br />Indubitably. Which, unfortunately, just leaves "populism" again in the position being mishandled as a near rhetorical football by Republican elites, and fled from by Democratic ones.Russell Arben Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03366800726360134194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7907752.post-70168549150061407502010-10-28T10:39:56.469-05:002010-10-28T10:39:56.469-05:00Some great points here, and thanks for the link. F...Some great points here, and thanks for the link. For those who haven't seen it, Wil Wilkinson also pointed out in more detail how Red America has its own counter-elite to the type of elite Murray is describing.<br /><br />http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2010/10/tea_partys_suspect_populismCamassiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09183087564923218343noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7907752.post-91457160500493350732010-10-28T10:15:41.410-05:002010-10-28T10:15:41.410-05:00Thanks for bringing up this topic. I look forward ...Thanks for bringing up this topic. I look forward to more discussions of it, because I cannot understand what people are talking about when they cry "elitism!" I sometimes think that it is just something that Republicans say to get under the skin of leftists...figuring that they can distract us with self-examination while they take over the world.<br /><br />(tangent: A college classmate of mine recently suggested that I was being "elitist" because I disagreed with him and Newt Gingrich about the fabled "WTC Mosque". This is really ironic to me, because when we were in school, he was the rich kid with the Hummer (and the same basic political attitudes he has today).)<br /><br />As for the quiz questions, Mr. Levy had a good point regarding the Rotary and Kiwanis. I looked into participating in the activities of these clubs, and got the impression that they are "invite only" types of clubs, and I have no way to get any such invite.<br /><br />Several of the questions actually seem to be testing your age, gender, and employment status. Oprah is a show for housewives. "The Price is Right" is for retired people (though I knew the answer for that one). Romance novels are for women. <br /><br />Why didn't he mention Football?<br /><br />As you two indicated, Murray has just picked out the traits that distinguish one of many cultural groups in America, and made some trivial observations. Any of these "elitist" issues can probably be summarized in a "socio-economic status" index, and it would avoid the contrivance of calling 1/4 of Americas "elite".Ricketsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02579799843541826447noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7907752.post-90467851722315050912010-10-28T09:50:29.028-05:002010-10-28T09:50:29.028-05:00One thing that I know is that Rotary and Kiwanis a...<i>One thing that I know is that Rotary and Kiwanis are for respectable local business elites, and that the overlap between Rotary membership and the reading of Harlequin romances or having worked on factory floors is quite small. He's trying to paint the elites with a comically broad brush, but the way he's construing the "other" category might be even worse.</i><br /><br />Excellent point. Any thoughtful reader of Jefferson knows that there are no elites who ought to take greater umbrage at being mixed indiscriminately in with the masses than <i>local</i> elites. The small-town lawyer, the country doctor, the businessman-turned-philanthropist funding an extension on the local library--to characterize them as "marginalized" alongside a bunch of NASCAR-watchers by some vague hypothetical bunch of Maine-vacationing Harvard-educated New Yorkers is, frankly, pretty insulting to their own integrity. Why should the president of the local Kiwanis tremble with rage at the supposedly insulting things being said about him on Desperate Housewives?<br /><br /><i>Most Real 'Murricans, by population, don't live in them. They live in exurban communities that range from large towns to medium-sized cities in their own right.</i><br /><br />Also true. I haven't seen reliable data on it, but given the age and racial demographics of Tea Party supporters, it would be highly unlikely that more than just a smidgen of them really were "small town" dwellers. The great majority of them, I suspect, are exurban dwellers whose "small towns" are extended suburbs and/or bedroom communities for nearby metropolitan areas.Russell Arben Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03366800726360134194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7907752.post-47218769058508913982010-10-28T09:28:02.945-05:002010-10-28T09:28:02.945-05:00"ever heard of Branson" was the line in ..."ever heard of Branson" was the line in the column that made me not care about even finishing it. Lazy and out-of-date. Once there was a time when that would have been a useful distinguishing mark-- but, after all, Branson's now been on the Simpsons, which is where we elitists learn about Real America.<br /><br />But, being from New Hampshire, I do know a thing or two about real America anyways. One thing that I know is that Rotary and Kiwanis are for respectable local business elites, and that the overlap between Rotary membership and the reading of Harlequin romances or having worked on factory floors is quite small. He's trying to paint the elites with a comically broad brush, but the way he's construing the "other" category might be even worse.<br /><br />And, as you note, "small town" is a strange category these days. Most Real 'Murricans, by population, don't live in them. They live in exurban communities that range from large towns to medium-sized cities in their own right.Jacob T. Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02575549001627195334noreply@blogger.com