tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7907752.post8480661760394404162..comments2024-03-27T07:18:39.229-05:00Comments on In Medias Res: Men, Boys, and GunsUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7907752.post-52064900635714023812009-03-31T15:15:00.000-05:002009-03-31T15:15:00.000-05:00Nice to see you soften in your antipathy towards o...Nice to see you soften in your antipathy towards one of the defining tools of civilization (and its opposite).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7907752.post-67935047342501984072009-03-30T11:49:00.000-05:002009-03-30T11:49:00.000-05:00I appreciate the thoughtful approach you have take...I appreciate the thoughtful approach you have taken with this subject. I live in both worlds (pro and anti gun) and I think I understand the range of thought and feeling on both sides.<BR/>The actual presence of a gun brings a visceral reaction (either positive or negative)from almost everyone in our culture today.<BR/>It is an odd time we live in (types the man on his computer connected to everyone else in the world). There are very few things in modern life that children come in contact with that bring home the lessons of care and consequences. I am not sad that power tools and wild animals and firearms are not the every day dangers they once were. I am sad that the lessons of respectful handling of powerful tools has been lost. The expectancy of safety has eroded the expectancy of personal care.<BR/>The car is one of the few big dangerous tools that we still wield and its respectful handling is, like the gun in some cultures, often overlooked. It is interesting that the most recent discussion about licensing our children to drive centered on the limits of acceptable distraction, and how old someone can be, before they are not expected to give full attention to the potentially lethal device they control.Bobby Rozzellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06292993399200604881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7907752.post-36340854277947563572009-03-30T06:36:00.000-05:002009-03-30T06:36:00.000-05:00Jeremiah/Anonymous,I think I agree with Bull Moose...Jeremiah/Anonymous,<BR/><BR/>I think I agree with Bull Moose, at least on the very narrow point of the 2nd Amendment. Though I tend, as you know, to prefer a communitarian/civic reading of things whenever possible, I do think that the presumption of responsible gun use/recreation which that amendment obviously involves requires a general, underlying defense of individual gun use and/or recreation. Hence, the often abused and angry rhetoric of "gun rights" is, unfortunately, probably necessary to accomplish the civic ends the amendment is formally about.<BR/><BR/>Why the unfortunate disconnect? As usual, I blame the NRA.Russell Arben Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03366800726360134194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7907752.post-87142608959568363202009-03-25T20:16:00.000-05:002009-03-25T20:16:00.000-05:00Anonymous said, "But I think there's a poor fit be...Anonymous said, "But I think there's a poor fit between the culture of gun ownership--which is largely connected to recreation--and the ideology of gun rights. Hunting is recreation, but very important *as* recreation, as culture, as tradition. And yet the second amendment isn't about these things."<BR/><BR/>But any responsible gun owner will tell you that you must be comfortable and competent using your gun, which means you need to shoot it regularly. To get a gun and never use it is a very dangerous way to treat it.<BR/><BR/>Guns are not a magical talisman of evil. They are a powerful tool, and like any other powerful tool, skill and care are required for their proper use.<BR/><BR/>I remember taking a hunter safety course in 7th grade. Every citizen should take a similar course to understand and respect guns, as well as demystify them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7907752.post-20477922876616586662009-03-25T06:24:00.000-05:002009-03-25T06:24:00.000-05:00I grew up with stories of my father's hunting prow...I grew up with stories of my father's hunting prowess but we had no guns because of my mother's fears. I am now in my mid-50s and for the first time there is a gun in our home. I believe in the rights of property and that sometimes you have to be prepared to protect your property.<BR/><BR/>The gun hasn't been taken out of its box. It is only a contingency for the eventuality of large scale civil unrest. <BR/><BR/>Actually I have little to fear. I live in Texas and there is some evidence to suggest that there is at least one long gun in Texas for every man woman and child and that there ware more than enough handguns. <BR/><BR/>I rather suspect that that fact alone is enough to keep peace down here. But everyone must do one's part.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7907752.post-47960217603426399442009-03-24T21:34:00.000-05:002009-03-24T21:34:00.000-05:00I've come to terms with gun culture, and seen the ...I've come to terms with gun culture, and seen the cultural biases in gun control culture, along the lines that you trace in this post. So I've ended up also on the left, being pro-gun. <BR/><BR/>But I think there's a poor fit between the culture of gun ownership--which is largely connected to recreation--and the ideology of gun rights. Hunting is recreation, but very important *as* recreation, as culture, as tradition. And yet the second amendment isn't about these things.<BR/><BR/>Millenialist as I am, I really think revolutionary, apocalyptic scenarios used to defend gun rights are an embarrassment to the gun rights movement. Society rests upon the fact that its members take its foundatuions for granted, and aren't preparing for their demise. If that sounds like a criticism of prevailing premillenialism as much as it is of Marxist revolutionary hope, it is. A society where one side is amassing arms to someday use against the other side is a sick one.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Russell,<BR/><BR/>You're working on a book on Fred? Please do fill me in on the progress of the book by email. Fred is one of my most dear teachers. As I said in my voicemail a while ago, I'm having trouble getting through your email filter, but I'm still at jeremiah. john at svu. edu (I also have gmail which I'll use to reply).<BR/><BR/>Jeremiah J.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7907752.post-37126951820102351272009-03-24T15:25:00.000-05:002009-03-24T15:25:00.000-05:00In western Pennsylvania, it's either hunt deer or ...In western Pennsylvania, it's either hunt deer or quit driving and gardening. Except for Pittsburgh itself, the first day of the season is a day-off for most schools.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7907752.post-27410712582664677472009-03-24T14:28:00.000-05:002009-03-24T14:28:00.000-05:00MH,I knew a guy in college who was a deer hunter, ...MH,<BR/><BR/>I knew a guy in college who was a deer hunter, and he was so incensed by that whole "shooting Bambi" meme. I mean, it really angered him. He played Walt Disney for making all sorts of things difficult for hunters. I though I was kind of funny myself.<BR/><BR/>Camassia,<BR/><BR/>Great comment. I like how you also connect your growing acceptance of hunting with your opposition to factory farming, because I suspect, on a fairly deep and inarticulate level, something of the same thing happened with me: as I thought more clearly about what it means to have a proper, non-commodified, respectful, healthy relationship with the animals we eat, my preference of the boar hunter over the shrink-wrapped bacon available at the grocery store became more explicit.<BR/><BR/>Good questions about the role of men, particularly armed men, in modern society. This post is easily the most positive thing I've ever written about guns, and it's been a long time coming; when we lived in Mississippi and Arkansas, while a sense of the positive role they can play slowly seeped into my thoughts, my wife and I were more immediately struck by the very <I>negative</I> role they often play in specific relationships. Casual gun violence in the South (and everywhere in the U.S., but especially there) is far more common than it ought to be in a civilized society, and while much of that can be blamed on any number of social and economic dislocations, the bare facts are that where you have a lot of guns, male competition and bull-headedness and resentment will result in a lot of violence, not to mention just a lot of horrible stupidity. (The town we lived in, Jonesboro, AR, had been the site of one of those ugly school shootings back in the 90s: a couple of little kids, stealing their dad's rifle, and mindlessly shooting at kids and teachers, killing several. Horrific stuff.) So yes, I don't want my positive thoughts about their place in elements of local American culture to overlook the threat they always pose.Russell Arben Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03366800726360134194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7907752.post-45306460192557655042009-03-24T11:04:00.000-05:002009-03-24T11:04:00.000-05:00I've been through a somewhat similar arc. I grew u...I've been through a somewhat similar arc. I grew up in an environment hostile to guns, but then my sister married a guy from Mississippi and moved south, so I became a bit more acquainted with the hunting and shooting culture. I also developed a firmer opposition to factory farming, which actually makes me more sanguine about hunting -- not that there aren't cruel ways to hunt, but that seems to be the least of modern animals' problems.<BR/><BR/>On a deeper level though, I'm still unnerved by what hunting and shooting seem to stir up in the human, and particularly male, psyche. That is, people don't just do it out of necessity but because they enjoy it (as you've noted here). There's a real question about how well modern society can function if large numbers of citizens identify themselves, on some level, as predators. Even the more benign guardian role seems to depend on there being some threat to guard against, hence the outlandish scenarios that the NRA sometimes comes up with (we have to have guns if there's a military coup!). And since guns are still largely a guy thing, this relates to the larger question of whether there's a uniquely male role in modern society that <I>isn't</I> inherently dangerous, which is certainly a live issue these days.Camassiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09183087564923218343noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7907752.post-40335728291600941722009-03-24T10:44:00.000-05:002009-03-24T10:44:00.000-05:00I never took-up hunting anything but birds, and I'...I never took-up hunting anything but birds, and I've not done that for years. My dad used to hunt deer and everytime he left, mom would say dad was "Going to shoot Bambi."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com