tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7907752.post6755244085118857511..comments2024-03-27T07:18:39.229-05:00Comments on In Medias Res: The Future of (Education at Places Like) FriendsUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7907752.post-71247002088129648662015-11-05T09:40:30.185-06:002015-11-05T09:40:30.185-06:00Bob,
Thanks for the comment. I said "Western...Bob,<br /><br />Thanks for the comment. I said "Western Europe" in the original post, because I'm aware that the way things worked in the UK for much of the 20th century have undergone some pretty radical changes. I can certainly empathize with your son as his $40,000+ in loans--my daughter will be facing at least that by the time she's finished (why, oh why, couldn't she have chosen to go to school for free here at Friends?!?). You're correct, of course, to point out the abuses possible under a system of apprenticeships, but I don't think that's an argument against them entirely. And as for selectivity? If the results of free (or at least tuition-free higher education could be directed towards the kind of multiplicity of educational routes that I originally mentioned, then I suppose I wouldn't have a problem with greater selectivity. The problem with universities that select their students in accordance with some inegalitarian criteria is when those universities are the providers of the <i>only</i> reliable route towards social mobility; if that wasn't the case, then greater particularity in university admissions wouldn't be a great problem, I think.Russell Arben Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03366800726360134194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7907752.post-53456916482279035422015-11-05T05:43:47.057-06:002015-11-05T05:43:47.057-06:00'where free or nearly-so higher education is c...'where free or nearly-so higher education is combined with an extensive system of testing which has encouraged, over the decades, the development of a multiplicity of vocational, technical'<br /><br />Not quite so here in the UK, where Higher Education i.e. University is now charging approx. £9000 pa (about $14000pa) for the privilege of learning. For my son this has resulted in a loan of $42k which is not the great start one needs in life. At the Further Education level i.e non-degree there is a lot of free(ish) learning and most of these Colleges are being pushed to offer apprenticeships, mainly due to government funding. <br /><br />The apprenticeships do help some youngsters get a start at work especially at the vocational level - the plumbers and electricians. These are usually one year in length, certainly not the old style 5 year indenture. The problem is there is a lot of abuse where the apprentice is 'slave' labour and the pay is paltry.<br /><br />Free learning would undoubtedly hurt the banks who are prime lenders of educational loans and that would, I believe be no bad thing but perhaps one issue would be that UNis would get more selective (as they once were) whereas now they take anybody who has a the correct entry criteria (lower?) and the money. The selectivity would take us back to a darker age. where Bobnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7907752.post-66838459346901049382015-10-16T20:28:08.319-05:002015-10-16T20:28:08.319-05:00MC,
Free college would only exacerbate the proble...MC,<br /><br /><i>Free college would only exacerbate the problem, which is the unholy union between the vocational aspects of college and the educational ones. More time could be spent in real education if there weren't so many kids there who "just need a degree" for some position that plainly doesn't require a degree in "Communications," or to apply to professional schools.</i><br /><br />This is a good comment, and you may be right. My thought experiment--and really, it's no more than that--is that if the costs of college were greatly reduced (because, obviously, getting rid of tuition wouldn't get rid of fees, housing, etc.), then the reigning calculus that governs most higher education institutions would have to change. The acceptance of students would be less of a desperate competition (because many schools would no longer have to make use of ruinous discount rates to attract enough students in order to, in conjunction with those students bank loans and federal aid, pay the bills), and that would lead, I think (or at least hope) to a raising and diversifying of standards. The idea that every university has to sell themselves to every prospective student along the same very narrow metrics might come to an end. And if <i>that</i> came to an end, then the cult of credentialism would come to an end as well, and we'd see a renaissance in vocational and apprentice education. But you're right that things could work out quite differently than I imagine here; maybe college would become even <i>more</i> of a way station, and in 20 years we'd see law schools, medical schools, etc., struggling with the same student taking up space that we undergraduate colleges have to deal with already. Just kicking the can down the road, in other words.Russell Arben Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03366800726360134194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7907752.post-63919464053032313532015-10-16T17:49:47.626-05:002015-10-16T17:49:47.626-05:00Free college would only exacerbate the problem, wh...Free college would only exacerbate the problem, which is the unholy union between the vocational aspects of college and the educational ones. More time could be spent in real education if there weren't so many kids there who "just need a degree" for some position that plainly doesn't require a degree in "Communications," or to apply to professional schools. If I had been able to apply to law school without a B.A., I wouldn't have taken up space at the State U. for three years going through the motions. And while I wasn't much of a grade-grubber, lots of other careerist kids were, and they just ruined things whenever they spoke up.<br /><br />So if Bernie got his way, and everyone went to college for free, the credential would become even more imperative, and you'd have even more people there who are totally uninterested in learning anything.<br /><br />Mind you, I had a blast in college, and I even learned a few things (although most of it was just from reading the assigned books). But it made no sense as an economic proposition given my career ambitions.MCnoreply@blogger.com